Another Clairen complaint (point and laugh)#178

Ok now that the title has filtered people, a few disclaimers.

1. I have not fought a decent Clairen in months. The ones I do fight are clearly not exercising this character’s potential, so these observations don’t come from a place of salt. If I wanted to salt post, the heavies would be the ones in the crosshairs.
2. This comes after a few weeks of turning over and over why exactly so many people have independently come to the conclusion Clairen is way too good in this game, but don’t have those same thoughts about her in the first game or Marth, her two direct inspirations. There’s something different about her, and I think I’ve figured out what.

Disclaimers out of the way, I’ll state the thesis out front: I believe the reason Clairen is seen as so good in this game is due to the fact that, while not being at the apex of any given part of the game, she is in the upper echelon of everything, and doesn’t have any area where the tradeoff is enough to compensate for her power level in others.

To talk specifics.

1. Movement: Clairen is near the top of the ladder in almost every movement stat, and the ones that don’t place her in the top third of the cast have her in the upper half. A few standouts are having the highest full hop, the second fastest dash and run speeds, the longest dash window, the third fastest fall speed, and an air speed and acceleration that are in the top half of the cast and substantial enough to allow her to get around in the air without much struggle. In addition, she has middling hitstun gravity and weight, which do make her die earlier, but I’ll mention a little later why that’s often to her benefit.
   These movement statistics are really good for a sword fighter, and especially good for a character with the ability to freeze her opponent in place before launching them. The high full hop and reasonable double jump height allow her to follow opponents into the air and extend combos that way (helped along by her up air’s ludicrous range). The run speed allows her to easily position herself on the ground to follow up on tipstun in a way that other fast characters have trouble managing. The air drift and speed mean that even if she has to take to the air in a horizontal chase, she’s by no means bad at doing so, especially since her forward air snd neutral special provide easy disjointed hitboxes that can compensate for her own mobility.
   This is a difference from Rivals 1’s iteration of Clairen, where while she was by no means sluggish, she was considerably slower than a lot of the cast. In that game, her tipstun mechanic and ability to shut down her opponents’ gameplan in large portions of the stage with her counter made up for the lack of overwhelming attributes. She seemed to be designed around that ability, giving her the edge if she could hit her opponent with a tipper or activate NFZ, but leaving her just decent without them. It’s worth considering: Rivals 2 Clairen also has these abilities, so why does she need the pushed attributes as well?
   One answer frequently mentioned is Marth. Marth, in Melee specifically, and by extension Project+, is fast on the ground and able to carry his ground speed into a jump thanks to that game’s unique physics, which bypasses his lackluster air speed and drift. Marth on offense, played optimally, is as much of a rushdown demon as Fox or Sheik. However, there are attributes about Marth that give him a distinct weakness Clairen doesn’t have, his air speed/drift being one of them, and I’ll come back to this later.

1. Offense and combo potential: Clairen has a lot of range, and attacks with shockingly fast frame data for that range. While on its own this isn’t too big of a deal, it’s worth mentioning since Clairen’s movement allows her to fairly easily position herself to place attacks around the opponent’s defenses in a way that leaves her difficult to counterattack, and equally difficult to get in on thanks to the aforementioned frame data. In addition, this was already mentioned in summary in the movement section, but Clairen’s tipstun puts her into the upper echelon of ability to combo opponents once she hits them. A single tipper can lead into an extended sequence that allows Clairen to carry an opponent around the stage and rack up lethal damage quickly. That isn’t unique for a rivals character, but something that often gets lost in this discussion is that the tipstun and disjoints result in Clairen moving her opponent around a lot more than she might otherwise, often placing them close to the blast zone.
I would also be remiss to not mention that Clairen’s hitboxes are by no means bad without hitting the tipper. Yes, some may have counterplay if the opponent can force her to hit with the hilt, but for many of them, especially in juggle scenarios, the base of the sword works just as well for setting up for a followup. However, that’s not even as much of an issue as it could be, since Clairen’s tipper hitboxes are proportionally very large compared to her rivals 1 incarnation. The discussion of “tipper too big” has been done to death, so I’ll keep it brief. In short, the tipper hitboxes are much larger than in the prior game, making them easier to hit, and also follow the arc of the sword accurately in a way that contradicts the concept of a “tipper.” In Rivals 1, the tipper was almost always placed intuitively at the tip of the attack, meaning if you wanted to hit the opponent with tipstun, you had to space the move near the edge of its range, giving it the drawback of potentially whiffing if you undershot. In Rivals 2, the tipper is where the tip of the sword is, regardless of whether that’s the tip of the attack or right next to Clairen’s body, meaning that hitting opponents with a “tipper” up air often means hitting them right next to Clairen’s torso. Regardless of the nuances, it’s undeniable that the tipper hitboxes are much larger and much easier to hit than in Rivals 1, which I believe is both to more resemble Marth’s tippers and also to compensate for potential hurtbox jank. Whatever the cause, it’s another aspect that pushes her offense far more than her previous appearance.
The final point of offense I want to bring up is her grab. This one gets a little iffy since her rivals 1 version didn’t have a grab in the same way as this game (it was a glorified hitbox, and the shield interaction and corresponding mind game was nonexistent), but I think it’s worth mentioning. Like Marth, Clairen has very good grab range. This, in conjunction with her movement and excellent buttons to threaten with hitboxes, serves to compensate for the supposed weakness of having poor close range coverage. Opponents are incentivized to shield her hitboxes, allowing her to rush in with her quick grounded movement and grab them for it. Opponents are incentivized to get in close where she has few attacking options (and many people suggest shielding when you do this to try to get her to hit your shield unsafely), allowing her to grab them for doing so. Speaking about throws, her throw game is mostly different from Marth. She lacks the easy access to chain up throws that he has in his games, which is a good change, and so is her down throw leading to basically nothing. However, to compensate for that, her forward and back throws remain combo throws for far longer than his could ever hope to. At damage ranges where Marth’s f/bthrow send too far for him to possibly follow up, Clairen’s still keep the opponent close enough for her to easily follow with a quick, spaced option, giving her an always-available 50/50 kill option even deep into Marthritis range. And if she manages to land her special pummel, that 50/50 skews even more in her favor.
In conclusion, Clairen has incredibly strong offense without many glaring, exploitable weaknesses, putting it in the same “pushed” category as her movement. But those two factors alone wouldn’t be too big of a problem, otherwise people would be complaining the same about Olympia and Maypul. There has to be more.

1. Recovery and disadvantage: Clairen has one of the best recoveries in the game, and I don’t think this can be chalked up as just an opinion. Again, it’s not the best by any means, and there is counterplay, but I’d like to explain why it’s still just as pushed as every other aspect of her design.
First of all, disadvantage. Remember what I mentioned earlier about how Clairen has middling weight and hitstun gravity? The reason I didn’t elaborate on it there was because it fits here. These two attributes do make her easier to kill than she would be if she was heavier or weighed more, but that’s missing out on something important: combo susceptibility. Because Clairen doesn’t fall like a rock the same as other fast characters with great offense (Maypul, Olympia, Zetterburn(?)), she isn’t victim to the same fast faller curse as they are. In conjunction with her weight causing attacks to launch her farther than they would heavier characters, she’s often able to slip out of combos, and her high air and fall speeds allow her to create more distance after she becomes actionable. Vertical combo strings are often less effective on her for that reason, allowing her to evade the same kind of punishment for getting hit that other characters with similar offense/mobility have to suffer. Additionally, her low hitstun gravity means that she can live horizontally more often than you’d think, which contributes to the next point: recovery.
Clairen’s recovery is aided by a number of different factors, some of which other characters also get, but most lack all of them together. First, her air speed allows her to gain more horizontal distance toward the stage after becoming actionable, which complements her ability to survive horizontal knockback and end up higher above the ledge than other characters with more hitstun gravity. Second, she’s blessed with an air stall in neutral special, which gives her the ability to vary her recovery timing and gain even more horizontal distance toward the stage. Third, she has a burst movement side special with more than adequate movement speed and drift. I won’t talk about its reversal capabilities because it isn’t unique in that aspect, but I will mention that the attack has an intangibility window that allows her to blip to the wall, where she can then wall tech attempts to hit her out of the end of the movement. People have mentioned that it’s strange Clairen, a character with really good recovery, is allowed to do this, when Orcane’s pulse dash was continually nerfed with more tangibility until it was replaced, and I agree with the sentiment, especially given the next two points. Fourth is her up special, which gives her incredible height and lateral distance, has a huge hitbox, and can be varied to a degree that makes any other character jealous. This is an incredibly difficult to parry recovery move, can counter hit in a way that gives her the stage for free, and has enough range to dissuade attempts to gimp. And fifth, on the topic of gimping, Clairen gets all of her recovery resources back when hit, except for minor diminishing returns on neutral special. Many other characters have this property, but they lack many of the others, and oftentimes their options are given diminishing returns anyway. Clairen only has this problem with her neutral special stall, meaning hitting her offstage is an often pointless endeavor unless you chase her very far out near the blast zone. Also, stepping back to offense for a brief moment, having a good recovery means Clairen’s offstage chasing is even better, since she can go to great depths and still make it back. A good recovery isn’t unique in this game, but attached to a character that excels in every other area as well raises eyebrows.
I

I want to again bring up comparisons to Clairen’s inspirations. First, her rivals 1 version, since it’s the closest. Most of what I’ve mentioned above is true for rivals 1 Clairen, but there are two things that make her stand out as different. The first point is the lack of vertical distance on her up special. If you’ve only played rivals 2, you might be surprised to find out that Clairen’s up special in the first game travels a comparably pitiful distance. It still has the same general properties, including high landing lag, a huge hitbox, and decent horizontal distance, but the amount of height gained is almost laughable in comparison to Rivals 2’s iteration. This is mitigated by the fact that she can wall jump after performing it, giving her more vertical distance, but the difference between the two still raises some eyebrows. In rivals 1, there were no ledges, meaning characters were forced to get back physically onto the stage to recover, and had to take whatever landing lag the move the used to do so left them in. In rivals 2, while you can’t wall jump out of up special (unless your name is Etalus, Kragg, or Gouie), you can grab the ledge to instantly gain intangibility and bypass the associated landing lag of your recovery option. Considering that, and the way Clairen has so many other recovery options to route with, you’d assume that the longer up special distance would be an aspect of the first game’s version, but it’s the opposite.
Compared with Marth, there’s more to say and more nuance to dive into. As a disclaimer, I’m aware that Melee’s recoveries are uniformly more volatile than Rivals’. You’re more likely to just straight up die to an edgeguard or even just an attack in Melee, so it shouldn’t be a shocker that Marth’s recovery is weaker than Clairen’s. However, I think the ways in which it’s weaker are interesting and provide some insight into why Clairen’s incredible recovery feels so strong when realizing how much of her offense and movement are based on Melee Marth. Marth has a side special vertical stall, similar to Clairen’s. However, he can only perform this once per airtime, so he doesn’t even get the benefit of diminishing returns. Marth also isn’t included in the exclusive club of character with wall jumps, meaning he doesn’t have that extra option to get more height, strengthening the potency of gimps against him. This is compounded by his lack of a horizontal movement option, and his poor air speed and drift. Marth has one, maybe two tries to get back onto stage, and if he fails, he usually just dies, standing in stark contrast to Clairen’s lenient recovery. The final area that I think makes the contrast between the two even more apparent is the difference in their up specials. I’m aware that these aren’t directly connected, but given she’s inherited his movement and offenses, it’s worth bringing up. Marth’s dolphin slash is a recovery option marked by its linearity, having very few different trajectories and basically no air drift after the apex. While it is fast, much faster than Clairen’s, that speed and the height it gains is almost all it has going for it. If Marth undershoots the ledge horizontally, he get ledge hogged and dies. If he overshoots to try to get back onto stage around a ledge hogging opponent, he can’t just drift back and grab ledge after they release it. He takes the full landing lag and often gets shoved right back off the stage for it, if not outright killed with an uncharged smash attack. He can’t edge cancel it on a platform either, because he has virtually no horizontal speed after the movement. It’s so famously exploitable that there’s a technique of guarding it specially named after him. In comparison, Clairen’s up special has incredible horizontal movement, especially with the second part, gains variation in timing and distance, and has a frankly baffling amount of drift that often lets her bypass landing lag by edge canceling or drifting back and grabbing ledge if the opponent leaves it to try to hit her. Most rivals 2 top tiers would kill to have Clairen’s recovery, but in contrast, most melee top tiers would turn Marth’s down. I think the contrast between these two recoveries, in light of the characters’ shared other strengths, demonstrates something that really gets at the core thesis here. Marth’s recovery is intentionally poor because he has such strong offense and movement, giving him a distinct weakness that other characters can use to beat him. Clairen’s recovery is intentionally great in spite of her strong offense and movement, removing a potential weakness and instead putting her at the upper echelon in yet another category of the game. And with that, I think she has the hat trick.

1. Bonus: Clairen gets her maximum strength by default. This point is a lesser one compared to the rest since other characters also have this quirk, but I figured I’d bring it up anyway since it does contribute a little to the overall thesis. While many characters in rivals rely on setting something up to achieve their maximum strength potential, oftentimes having to hit the opponent and/or avoid getting hit themselves to strengthen their offense/recovery, Clairen is in the club that has her maximum potency by default, and she never loses it. She doesn’t have to hit the opponent to gain her tippers, she doesn’t have to set up a resource to get a better up special, and she doesn’t have to apply some kind of status to her opponent to net early kills. The closest thing she has here is her NFZ, but I hardly think that’s comparable, since Clairen players often don’t even use it if they’re already steamrolling their opponent with their fully-unlocked offense. Maybe her tippers could be argued to be her version of this, but that’s countered by those tippers being always-accessible, and other characters often having to contend with spacing as well.

In conclusion, I think this is why Clairen gets so many complaints, but none of them seem to get at the heart of the reason why she’s regarded as so frustratingly strong. People complain about her movement (“Clairen is too fast”), her offenses being too strong (“why does she get tipper for free?”), or her recovery being too good (“why does she get to become intangible during her side special?”), but few of them mention all these things in conjunction and even fewer point out that she’s near the top of the pack at all of them at once. While any singular point can be deflected by pointing out a character that does the thing better than Clairen, when considering them all together, it becomes harder to defend why she’s like this, and I think explains why she’s been a consistent area of complaint for years at this point.

Also the fact that she barely gets nerfed ever compared to everyone else, but that’s beating a dead horse and I have little faith it’ll ever change.

-Serial Complainer

Number formatting got screwed up. The “1.”‘s are meant to be 1. 2. 3. 4.